[LEXIE LEE] The Married Entrepreneurs Podcast is part of the Practice of the Practice network, a network of podcasts seeking to help you market and grow your business and yourself. To hear other podcasts like Bomb Mom and Grow A Group Practice, go to www.practiceofthepractice.com/network. [RON LEE] Welcome to the Married Entrepreneurs Podcast. This is Rn Lee. [LEXIE] I am Lexie Lee. [RON] We are professional counselors and serial entrepreneurs who are married [LEXIE] To each other. [RON] Thank you for joining us as we explore the business of life and the life of business. [LEXIE] Today we have with us Ben Winter. Ben is the co-founder of Success Improv, an author of What to Expect When Having Expectations, Using the Anger of Unmet Expectations to Find Peace. Welcome Ben. [BEN WINTER] Hi, thanks for having me. [RON] Well, Ben, tell us a little about yourself. [BEN] Yes, so I’ve been doing lots of different things in my life, entrepreneurialism, owning my own business for 12 years and then doing a lot of Improv. I definitely started to see a lot of the crossover between the two so I started another company, Success Improv, which you talked about, which really dives into using Improv for day-to-day life skills, whether that’s just wanting to have a better life to teams working better together in companies. So just one of those skills that we all do well, Improv is one of those things we do every moment of every day of our lives and most people just don’t know that there are rules to Improv and when you follow those rules of Improv, that everything just sort of works better. So that’s kind of where the training really takes people and where I want people to go is to really learn those rules of Improv so they can have a better life. [BEN] That’s kind of, and of course through that process I started really diving into this world of expectations. One of the rules of Improv that I teach is called be specific. That’s really about setting expectations. One of those things, when I’m doing a training with people is we have them do an exercise earlier in the day and then later we say, now that same exercise, but you have to make sure you hit these points. People struggle with that because they’re not used to setting expectations in such a way. It’s really funny because one of the examples I always give is like, hey honey, take out the trash. We all think that’s a really simple request, but which trash, when do you need it taken out? is there a reason it’s right now? Those sort of things. There’s not a lot of expectations in that conversation or in that request. So it requires some communication, some back and forth, some understanding and negotiation and specifics. So when I started to really dive into that world of expectations, I was like, all right, there’s a lot of depth here so I decided I needed to write a book about it and so I did [RON] We call expectations part of the happy formula, understanding someone’s expectations and then understanding someone’s reality. Those two different levels that are drawn are what makes people happy. If you don’t understand someone’s expectations and you’re constantly trying to meet them, but you don’t know where the bar lands, the bar just constantly keeps moving on you. When that happens in relationships, it really is, the definition of unhappy, because just like you said, we’re not drawing those conclusions. We’re not really drawing where the bar is. That’s going to make someone happy within the relationship. So that’s very interesting. What do you think is the best Improv tool? [BEN] The best Improv tool, that’s a tough one, well, the first rule I teach, so when I ask people what rules of Improv do you know most people say yes. It’s the most common rule that people have heard at least. They may not understand it, but they’ve heard it. I take it a step back and the first rule I teach is called don’t deny. That one really is about accepting what is, and so whatever the moment calls for you have to accept what is before you can move forward so that yes, and yes, and is really the same as don’t deny. It requires a lot of work and effort to really just accept where things are. So if you’re in a relationship and you’re not happy, you have to accept and I’m not happy before you can do anything about it. It’s like somebody with an addiction, they’re not going to do anything about that addiction until they accept that they have an addiction. You’re not going to accept, you’re not going to do anything about your money situation or your living situation until you accept I don’t have the money I want. I’m not living where I want, et cetera. So a lot of it starts with that acceptance and so I kind of feel like that’s the most important rule because if you don’t start there you’re, you can’t go anywhere. That’s why I’m going to say that’s the most important thing to really learn when it comes to Improv. [LEXIE] That’s so true in thinking about we do have to have that acceptance and get out of denial. Do you have any tools that you have found in your own personal life or in relationships that you see that help people to do that? [BEN] Part of the work that I did around expectations is I created this flow chart. The first thing in that flow chart is it says you’re upset. I think being upset is 100% the best tool that I have found for people to possibly make a change because when you’re upset and you recognize, hey, I’m upset, you now have an opportunity for growth if you choose but you have an opportunity for growth to say, hey, I’m upset. Did I know I had this expectation? Most of the time, we don’t even know he had the expectation until it’s not being met. So then you can take a step back and say, why do I have this expectation? Where is it coming from? Is it serving me? Because a lot of the expectations we have about how life in the world works, really comes from how we’re raised. So if we take a step back and say, hey, my parents had this thought, my parents had this belief, it doesn’t really resonate with me, so why am I getting upset about what my parents wanted versus what I want. So now you have to, so getting upset, I think is perfectly okay for people, as long as you take that as an opportunity for growth, rather than stewing in it and becoming a victim to it. That’s one of those weird things that a lot of people just don’t even know that is a possibility. So just saying, hey, you’re upset. That’s a great possibility for you. Moving forward in life, now they have at least some level of awareness that they can actually do something with it. [LEXIE] It goes with that saying people don’t change until it becomes too difficult to remain the same. [BEN] Yes, or too painful to stay where you are, exactly. [LEXIE] So how did you get into Improv? [BEN] Oh, I had seen some shows and I was just amazed at the fact that these people could get on stage and do this. I was like, what is happening? Like, how are they so brilliant at this? At the end of each show, they would say, “Hey, we teach classes.” Of course, my brain was like, oh, I’m not good enough for that. I’m not smart enough or funny enough, or any of that sort of thing. It didn’t even click that they’re teaching classes on how to do something, meaning you don’t know what you’re doing because you’re now going to take a class to do it. So it didn’t even click. It wasn’t until I was dating my then future wife, who’s now my ex-wife, anyway, she decided she was going to take an Improv class and I was just like, all right, well, do you mind if I go with, and I absolutely just fell in love with it. Because the first thing they did when we walked in the room was like, “Hey, there are rules to Improv. You follow the rules and everything will be fine.” I was like, oh, well, I can do that. I never felt more at home in my life than when I’m on-stage doing Improv. [LEXIE] That’s awesome. How did you move from taking a class to then teaching and making a business and writing a book out of this? [BEN] So I did Improv for many, many years. Oh, I’m still doing it on the side. It’s fun. Having had my own business and meeting people and doing sales and marketing and talking to people over and over and over, I started to really see the connection between Improv on stage and Improv in life is basically the same rules that needed to be followed. You’re talking to somebody, you don’t want to make them wrong, so it’s not, well, no. You say, oh, okay. I see what you’re saying. Have you thought about such and such and more information and so on, so you can make a better choice in what you’re thinking? A lot of times with clients, it’s like I understand that’s what you want to do and these are the limitations or that’s going to cost more money and it’s the whole yes. Yes, I see that you want this and do you have this information to realize that’s a really poor choice, that sort of thing. So I really started to see this crossover between Improv on stage and in life and I was like, I think I was meditating one day and it was just like, boom, this is what I need to do. So I started to really kind of formulate and create this system to teach Improv, not to be on stage, but to use it in life and sort of morphed into kind of a team building company and or happiness in the workplace or something along those lines. But it really helps in a team environment because when everybody’s on the same page, they all understand the same rules, they’re going to work better together in just so many different ways. It’s great. [RON] Who do you see being your preferred client? [BEN] Oh man, I like groups of about 10 or 20 people that work together on a regular basis. It doesn’t really matter what industry that is because any group that works together, if they have the right tools, they’re going to create magic in whatever group they’re in. When somebody’s like in denial or they’re upset and you now have these tools, you can draw from, you can help get them past it really fast, you can work with them instead of butting heads with them. You’ll be able to talk and support one another on a whole different level you didn’t even know it was possible. I think that’s where the magic really comes in. So I mean, I would love for every company on the planet to learn Improv, whether, I mean, obviously for me, but anybody just learn Improv and you’ll see some just magic change in your world and in business. There’s one thing I teach around brainstorming that really comes to a point where you might actually create your next million-dollar idea just by this brainstorming technique. Because I teach it in such a way where it’s like, oh, that makes perfect sense. That’s why we’re not getting the results we want when we do these meetings, that sort of thing. So it’s quite amazing. So, [LEXIE] Okay, so now I want to know more about that, because I need my next million-dollar idea. [RON] Yes, I’m going to need my next million-dollar idea. You got to help me out here, dude. [BEN] Well, you guys talked about the Yes, and a little bit and that’s kind of the big piece there where if you’re in a group setting and you’re coming up with ideas and let’s just say chat over in the corner, he’s kind of quiet. He’s smart, but he is quiet, he’s shy, he throws out an idea and everybody says, well, that’s a horrible idea. They’re like, no, but, well Chad’s not going to say anything else. Maybe it was Chad’s 11th idea that is the million-dollar idea. If you’re just putting out the ideas and you’re just like, that’s a great idea and what about this, what about this and let’s keep adding on. Maybe it’s 30 minutes in, but Chad now feels included and his ideas are not dismissed. It might take that 30 minutes for him to say, oh, this is it. This is the thing. Now, because of this brainstorming session, you’ve got all these ideas, you’re formulating stuff together as a team and then boom, here’s the winning thing. It’s almost like if you’re digging a mine or whatever, and you’re looking for that gold every time you say no, but you start changing directions or you start leaving the mine as opposed to yes, it’s like, you keep digging further and further and then bam, you finally hit that gold vein. So that’s kind of the big piece is a lot of the Yes, and making sure people are included. [LEXIE] Why do you think it’s so difficult to have that mindset of Yes, and? [BEN] Well, just look at the society we live in. We’re bombarded by media and the media is very biased and we’re told what to think and believe. Unless you have a strong mind to say, hey, wait a second, that doesn’t sound right or let me go check in on that, we buy into things. You watch a commercial, their entire point of having a commercial is for you to decide that their product is the best thing ever and that their competitor’s product is the worst thing ever. It doesn’t matter if you like their competitor’s product better or not. Their whole point is to convince you that it’s not a good product. So just society alone, we’re just bombarded with, this is what you need to believe. Sorry, not sorry. So it’s a struggle out there [RON] With the world being as negative as it is, and I think that negative condensation is really almost pushed the brain naturally, the brain naturally wants to retain every negative thing you’ve ever done in your life and it dumps everything good. What I love about your program and as well as the Yes, and, it really teaches people to retrain the brain. Don’t think about the negatives, don’t dwell upon those negatives so much. Get your brain trained, to start looking for the positive things of life. I think that’s where you’re going. I think that’s absolutely fantastic. [BEN] Yes, it absolutely does. One of the things that I found interesting when I talk to people who are new to Improv is when I first started doing shows I would start driving home, my brain starts to calm down, everything starts to calm down around me and I’m like, oh, I should’ve said that or, oh, that would’ve been brilliant. I would sit there and rehash and start coming up with better ways that I could have done something. The reality is I couldn’t because it already happened. It was already done. So now when I do a show, I don’t think twice about what I said or did or didn’t do or whatever. Occasionally something will pop up as like that. Would’ve been brilliant and I’m like, yes. I’ll laugh because now I have this whole new level, but I don’t dwell on it. I don’t sit there and say, mmh man, if I could only go back and change something. How many times in our lives are we like, oh, if I could just go back and change something. That’s not effective. It’s not something we can do. All we can do is look at the past and say, oh, that’s what happened. Then what can I do moving forward? Improv really does teach you just to live in the moment and so many times we don’t do that. We live in the past, or we live in the fear of the future, whatever might be. There’s some magic in living in the present so much. [RON] Can we call that mindfulness and avoiding depression and anxiety because depression is always going backwards thinking about that, oh, I should have done this. That’s always going to make you feel bad and so you’re right on the money. [BEN] Yes. I’m not teaching anything new. I’m just saying it in a different way. That’s one of the things that I figured out with personal growth is there’s so many different ways to get there. It’s like find the one that works best for you, whether that’s counseling, whether that’s going into a program. There’s so many great speakers out there that are teaching the same thing that I’m teaching, that counselors are teaching, that everybody’s teaching. It’s just like, it’s find your path to move forward. Just don’t stay stuck in the past. Don’t stop. It’s keep moving forward. It’s the big thing. [LEXIE] I love that. It’s so true. So can you share just a little bit personally how Improv helped you to move forward, like where you were from that class to where you are now? [BEN] The main thing is self-confidence. It’s been a huge self-confidence booster. I think the main thing with that is that if any situation comes up, I know that I’m going to be able to handle it. Even if I don’t like that situation, I’ll know that I’ll be able to work through it. Whatever that situation might be, as painful as it might be, it’s learning the rules of Improv and applying them on a regular basis, really helps just ground me in the present. If somebody’s really upset or spewing hate or whatever, it’s like, okay, I can see what’s going on here. They’re upset. They’ve got something going on. I just got here. So it’s not about me. They’re just taking it out on me. So what can I say or do to kind of bring the situation, calm it down a little bit or help this person through whatever’s going on because it’s not me? Too many times we take things personally and I’ve been able to not take things so personally, as a result of doing Improv, which really helps with self-esteem. So it really just goes back to self-esteem and self-confidence. If nothing else, I think that’s the main reason people should do personal growth, whether that’s Improv, counseling, Tony, Robbins, whatever, just get out there and do something to grow. [LEXIE] Yes, I agree so much. Tell our listeners how they can find out more about you. They want to know more about this set and expectations. Tell us how they can find you. [BEN] So there’s two different websites. Successimprov.com is the team building company. You can learn more about Improv there. Then the book, What to Expect When Having Expectations and all the flow chart I talked about, you can download that for free. That is on havingexpectations.com. You can find me at either of those spots. [LEXIE] Great, great. Thank you. We’ll also include those in the show notes, so it’ll be easy for them to find you. Ben, thank you so much for this conversation today. It has been a pleasure hearing more about you. [BEN] Yes, thanks for having me. It’s been great. [RON] You’ve been a great guest and I can’t wait for more companies and more individuals to understand the power of Improv and how it can change their life. I think you’re going to be a great resource for people to look toward, to meet those needs. So you’re really fulfilling a gap within the community that needs to be filled so good for you, man. [BEN] Well, thank you. Thank you. [LEXIE] Thank you for listening. Time is our most valuable resource and we appreciate that you shared your time listening to us. If you enjoyed our show, please rate us or give us a review. You can share this episode with someone that you think may benefit. You can find more from us at marriedentrepreneurspodcast.com. [RON] This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or any other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.