[LEXIE LEE] The Married Entrepreneurs Podcast is part of the Practice of the Practice network, a network of podcasts seeking to help you market and grow your business and yourself. To hear other podcasts like Bomb Mom and Grow A Group Practice, go to www.practiceofthepractice.com/network. [RON LEE] Welcome to the Married Entrepreneurs Podcast. This is Ron Lee. [LEXIE] I am Lexie Lee. [RON] We are professional counselors and serial entrepreneurs who are married [LEXIE] To each other. [RON] Thank you for joining us as we explore the business of life and the life of business. [LEXIE] Hey guys, we thought we’d do something a little different today because we often, when we’re sitting around having coffee, talk about how, when we’re having a conversation, we should have the microphone on. So that’s how today’s going to sound. It’s going to sound more just Ron and I having a conversation. Hi, Ron. [RON] Works for me. Hey, good morning. So what’s on your mind? [LEXIE] Decision making really, and how this came up for me is we had made a decision together and the difference in the way we approached things caused some frustration and some friction. I don’t even remember what the decision was, but I very clearly remember that I had made the decision and then you brought in new information. [RON] It was probably about making a decision about a decision. [LEXIE] Something, I don’t know, we could have circular thinking, but you said well, what about this? I was like, I don’t need no information. I’ve already made my decision. So when, I like lots of information in the beginning. I’m more analytical, but really also more of a social decision maker too. That’s how we work well together. We’re both social decision makers in that we like the input from other people. So I like all that information, but once make a decision I’m done. I don’t need to look at any more information. I have decided. I’m done. You are always, what if, but what if, but what about this? What is it like for you when I’m like, I’m done? [RON] It doesn’t bother me when you say you’re done, but I have to say, I disagree a little bit with you that once I make a decision that I keep searching, because that’s what it sounds like you’re saying, like I’m constantly looking for more information after I make a decision. It’s like, if I buy a truck, I’m not looking for more trucks after I buy a truck. I’m done, decision made. I heard that story of, it’s just talking like shopping for a grill. If you’re shopping for a grill, you’re going to go out and you’re going to test all the grills. You’re going to go look at the Green Mountain, Camp Chef, but if you’re a Camp Chef, if you’re listening to this podcast, I would more than happy to take any merch you want to send my direction. The Big Green Egg, you’re going to look at all these different things. You’re going to look at all these different styles, pellet, smokers, whatever. You’re going to look at them all but then when you get ready to throw that a thousand dollars and you’re going to take that grill home, and then that’s your grill. So I think it all depends on the decisions that I’m making. If it’s a purchase, I’m pretty much buy one and done. But if it’s, but other things I can be probably become very wishy-washy. And you probably have a better understanding of that than I do [LEXIE] Well, I think we both tend to be fairly quick decision makers in that while there is information gathering and we study that we don’t spend months doing research. It’s not an agonizing process of making a decision and we don’t have to look at every single option. We can glance and rule out things pretty quickly. What comes to mind when I think about that is, that I go shopping with who is very frustrating for me to go shopping with this person, love her dearly but I — [RON] I know who this person is. [LEXIE] You’ve heard me complain about this process before, but you walk into a store, when I walk into a store I look around this store and I’m like, okay, I want to go look at that over there on that rack and I’m going to look at this on this other rack. I mean, I pretty quickly assess the situation and I’m going to be in and out more quickly. This friend will have to go to every single rack and then touch every single item on the rack. Take it off, look at it, mmh, nope. Not that one. Pick up the next one. Nope, not that one. So I find myself just sitting over to the side waiting because I have already assessed and picked out the two things that I’m going to buy and I’m done right. And 20 or 30 minutes later, she’s like, no, I’m not going to buy anything. Because she’s in touch with every single item in the store. Not that that is wrong because she finds things sometimes and she’ll point it out to me and I’m like, oh, because I miss that because I didn’t look at every single item. So there are pros and cons to both. It sounds like I’m talking negative about her. It’s just a different style. She finds things that I don’t and I often can do good enough and get out and move on to the next thing. [RON] When you describe this, it always reminds me of that lady who helps hoarders and her main concept is you walk into the room and you grab this item and you hold this item and you go, how much joy does this item bring to me? You really have to, and so that’s when you describe that person, that’s what I see. Who? [LEXIE] Marie Condo. [RON] Marie Condo, there you go. When you describe that, that’s what I see this person doing, just holding it for a second and closing their eyes to go, can I vision myself in this and where would I wear it and what shoes would match with that? Would this be a good way too much, way too much — [LEXIE] I may have to ask, give me some new insight into this friend and that I’ll have to ask and see if that’s part of what is going on. Because the book did not do much for me. Like the process of does this bring me joy is not how I think. So I not the primary target for that book. [RON] No, because I don’t look for things that usually bring me joy. I look for things that usually solve my problem. I’m really into does it solve the problem? That’s really where I concentrate. Okay, so you were talking about a couple of different styles. [LEXIE] Yes. [RON] What are the other styles? Give me all the styles. I want all the styles [LEXIE] Well, I don’t know if I can give you all the styles, but you can certainly find that there are some main differences in styles. Like the first area that you can classify people into is how, how much they’re okay with ambiguity or structure? Does it need to be a very structured process or are they more likely to go with the flow? I tend that, you are more go with the flow than I am. I am much more structured in how I think about things. Even when we’re like preparing for the podcast I’m like the structure person. A little friction happens around podcasting time because I’m like, oh, we need to iron things out. You’re like, let’s just turn on the mic and let’s just talk. [RON] My head turns on and goes, hey, why is this taking so long? Why is this so hard? Just turn the mic on and start talking. Funny stuff will happen. Trust it. But it’s all good. It’s all good because in the end we produce good content and that’s really what we’re trying to do in the decision making process and in the podcast process. [LEXIE] Okay, so when we look — [crosstalk] Hold on a sec in, but there’s another piece of it also, not just ambiguity and structure. There’s also whether it’s task oriented or whether it’s more people oriented. So here’s what I mean by that. There are people who just, this is a decision that needs to be made. I’m going to look all of the analytical information. I’m going to be very, or be very directive with it and make a decision. Then people who are more people oriented gather information and then they need feedback from others before they make the decision. So in some level it can be pleasing but it also can be, I just need input from other people’s opinion so that I’m being sure that I’m seeing things how I want to see. [RON] So the opinion people would be like the people who go to like consumer reports, because I’m going to look at a consumer report magazine, I’m going to thumb through there. I’m going to see what the masses say is the best thing out there, regardless if it’s actually the right tool for me but I may choose that route to go on? [LEXIE] Actually, I’m going to disagree. [RON] Okay, you have the option. Well, if you’re going to disagree with me, which is fine, at at least tell me what you disagree on. [LEXIE] So what I see is consumer reports can actually still be more task-oriented and more structured because there there’s testing and there’s data and it’s less of what I think. It’s more of with this test and we have this criteria that we’re running it against. I think that people-oriented might be like TripAdvisor, where or Google Reviews. What did the reviews say, or the Amazon Reviews? [RON] Okay, I get that concept. That makes sense to me. And when you explain it like that, I can see it when you explain it like that. [LEXIE] So on that scale, I think both of us tend to be more people-oriented. We value others’ opinions more than the technical, it’s not that it’s like either, or, it’s like a spectrum where you have this dial that you can move either direction. We’re not on either end of this spectrum because it is important to me for this to have this data criteria, depending on what the decision is around a purchase or how big of a purchase. Because if I’m buying a car, yes, I want some technical data, but one of the things that is important to me is it pretty? [RON] That was coming. I got Chrome on it. Going to need me some Chrome. Y’all millennials are destroying cars, because y’all are removing all the Chrome. Chrome makes a car pretty. [LEXIE] That was our conversation last week. But anyway, so I do, when we are planning a trip, go to TripAdvisor and see what other people say about where we’re going. Or I like to look at the Amazon Reviews and I look at the negative stuff as well as the positive. So other people’s opinions is more important to me, but it’s not the only thing. On that scale, I probably am closer to what people say and a little bit further away from being more task-oriented. What other problems do you see with making decisions? When we think about like how do we navigate when I’m done, I’ve made my decision and you’re giving me more information? How do we make that work? [RON] Oh, I see the frustration on your face for me trying to give you more information. My homer head goes, you need to shut up, shut up right now, shut up, shut up, shut up. That’s usually the route I’m going to take, is not to get into a fight over something that could, sometimes you just got to step over stuff and you got to choose your battle and depending on what it is. Well, I mean, okay, it’s not like travel. Travel, sometimes it’s, I don’t like taking multiple stops, so I’m always going to look for the airfare that’s going to get me there without stops, but that could also be more expensive. So those discussions that we have to have, it’s like, it’s going to be an hour or two hours. How long is this going to take? It all depends on the topic when it comes down to, but most of the time, I really try not to buck the system too much. [LEXIE] When is it okay to buck the system? [RON] When you’re not in your scope. I think there’s something about the system. Other people are good at other things. We’re not all good at the same stuff. And as entrepreneurs we have a scope, we have a way of looking at different things. I’m better at looking at things than Lexie is, and Lexie is better looking at certain things than I am and all those different topics like that would be a totally different podcast. But I think there’s a piece of that action where you have to go look at the scope. [LEXIE] Well, and I think you’re onto something with that and that being able to have some defined roles of, okay, in certain things, there’s a hierarchy. There are things that I make decisions about. There are things that you make decisions about. That’s that partnership that we have that from a biblical point of view it’s, God, spouse, family, work and that husband is head of the household, but how we operate, it’s not that you get final decision on every decision that we make. There’s some things where I’m like, okay, that is your wheelhouse. You know more about that. That’s where you get to make the final decision. Even if I disagree, I’ll give my input and you make final decision. Then there’s some areas where it’s in my wheelhouse and so I get to make final decision on that. It goes back to that clearly defining roles and so even in working together in our businesses that we have had sometimes, usually that is because we’re not staying in our lane that we have to have that flow chart of who’s responsible for what, and me being the controlling person — [RON] Freak, freak. [LEXIE] More so. On the spectrum, I could be — [RON] On the spectrum, you’re definitely on the spectrum. [LEXIE] I could also be — [RON] Leave yourself up with the outline [LEXIE] Well, but I could also be more acceptable of ambiguity. But anyway, the problem comes when we are outside of our lane and so being able to gently say, hey get back in your lane. This is my area. And sometimes you do that very well in that you’ll say do you want to take over that, which is code for get back in your lane. [RON] Or code for you’re already taking over, so just run with it. [LEXIE] So that usually helps me to say, oh, wait, I didn’t want that responsibility. Why am I taking it? [RON] We’ve been married for 22 years, hanging out for 24. We pretty much know our scope these days. Anything yard-related, anything like that, anything outdoors, vehicle I’m pretty much the final decision. Household stuff, kids’ stuff, vacation stuff, you’re usually in charge of those things. Groceries are no big deal, just buy food, small decisions we don’t have issues with. [LEXIE] Yes, we figured out those roles long ago. We bump heads more usually around work as we’re growing and expanding and making sure that we follow that flow chart, which is real easy when you work for someone else to stay in your lane. But when we both have ownership of the project, that’s when it becomes more difficult. [RON] That’s when those meetings need to happen, those morning meetings where you’re sitting around the coffee table and you’re going, hey, what are we doing? What needs to be taken care of? What’s your idea of this project? Because I think that’s when you open up a new scopes of business. I think I really see that that could be problematic simply because people don’t know. Then the trust factor is not quite there. Is it going to get taken care of? You say you’re going to do it, but then it didn’t happen. So then there’s a micromanaging that starts to occur. So yes, new lines of business are always difficult. [LEXIE] Well, and I just remembered one other tool that we use when we feel like we have a lot of friction, maybe the bickerings happening, or we’re having trouble with coming to a decision or how we’re making the decision is that we use proximity. That if we feel disconnected, we come closer together. Maybe we hug, maybe we touch, maybe we hold hands, maybe we kiss. It’s using proximity to connect again, to help us get back on the same page. Not something that you do for someone else or shouldn’t, but when we work together that not being on the same page feels heavier because we have an emotional connect. It’s not just a transactional relationship, it’s an emotional relationship. So we have to connect on an emotional level in order to get back on track. If it’s a transactional relationship and you disagree, it’s easier to separate it. [RON] I agree. [LEXIE] Yes. So what are your takeaways from this conversation? [RON] You make all the decisions and I should keep my mouth shut. No, that’s not takeaways. Takeaways, there are a lot of different ways to look at the decision-making process. Everyone has their own. A lot of times they’re muddied depending on the topic of what you’re trying to decide. I think sometimes people have multiple different decision-making processes. It’ll depend on what the topic is. So as long as you have an understanding of what your spouse’s method is, and then having a respect for that, and then letting that process naturally happen and making sure that’s an organic process, you’re not stepping on each other’s toes or telling someone that they’re just wrong, because I think when you drop into those mentalities, that it’s dangerous and you’re more likely to get in more conflict. So there you go. There’s my take. [LEXIE] I think you’re right. An important part is recognizing your own personal way of approaching things, your spouse’s way of approaching things and then giving some grace and understanding that you may do it differently and then communicating about what that looks like. I really enjoyed our conversation today. [RON] It was a good talk. Good talk. [LEXIE] We should do this again. [RON] I’m sure we will. You guys have a great day. [LEXIE] Thank you for listening. Time is our most valuable resource and we appreciate that you shared your time listening to us. If you enjoyed our show, please rate us or give us a review. You can share this episode with someone that you think may benefit. You can find more from us at marriedentrepreneurspodcast.com. [RON] This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or any other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.