[LEXIE LEE] The Married Entrepreneurs Podcast is part of the Practice of the Practice network, a network of podcasts seeking to help you market and grow your business and yourself. To hear other podcasts like Bomb Mom and Grow A Group Practice, go to www.practiceofthepractice.com/network. [RON LEE] Welcome to The Married Entrepreneurs Podcast. This is Ron Lee. [LEXIE] And I am Lexie Lee. [RON] We are professional counselors and serial entrepreneurs who are married [LEXIE] To each other. [RON] Thank you for joining us as we explore the business of life and the life of business. [RON] Well, hello? [LEXIE] Are you tapping into your inner berry white today? [RON] I am going deep into my berry white today because the topic we are talking about is physical touch. [LEXIE] Yes. So we want to give a little warning that this topic may not be appropriate for other listeners, little ears or listening in a work setting. This might be a solo for your ears only episode. [RON] Yes, so by all means, let’s put the kiddos away and listen to this one, mom and pops only. [LEXIE] So what we’re talking about today is physical touch and how to use physical touch to increase intimacy in your relationship. [RON] The first thing that has to come to my mind is a whole bunch of definitions because as you know, on the Married Entrepreneurs show, we really pushed for you to understand the definitions that your spouse is using in descriptors. So please explain yourself. [LEXIE] I tell you what, as we come up to each type of physical touch, there are five that we’re going to talk about we’ll first define it and then talk about it a little bit more. Does it sound like a plan? [RON] Yes. [LEXIE] All right, so the first type to talk about is what we’re going to call affectionate physical touch. [RON] When I think of affection, I think of like just petting a dog, not to, not, hey, hey, let me clarify that real quick. You’re not a dog. That would be bad. But then, when you’re affectionate, you’re like playful, you’re playful, you’re spontaneous, you’re petting. [LEXIE] It could be very innocent, handholding, hugging, kissing can be a part of affectionate. Arousal is not necessarily the goal. I can give you an affectionate kiss goodbye, see you later and obviously, if I’m leaving, there’s no trying to get you aroused and lead to intercourse. [RON] Yes. [LEXIE] But it can be foundational. I mean, it certainly can be a step that leads to intercourse or it can just be where the touch ends that the goal is just, we’re going to sit here and hold hands and feel connected and that be it. [RON] Okay, so this would be the stuff that you would see hopefully teenagers just doing, just like staying in this realm right here, don’t go past these teenagers. Just stay in the realm of kissy face, holding hands, hugs, and maybe even just side hugs, I’m not sure. [LEXIE] Yes, that’s side hug. [RON] Side hugs. [LEXIE] Yes, I am certainly where I want my teenagers to end. But also, sometimes when we see couples in the office, we’ll have one partner and more typically than not, it is the female partner say that she doesn’t like to give any affection because the expectation is any touching is going to lead to intercourse and that she doesn’t necessarily want to have sex. So then we see like this whole missing piece of intimacy with the couple because there’s no affection. [RON] That’s tough. I mean, I can’t even imagine being a guy and the wife was not wanting to touch me or give me hugs or kisses because, I don’t know if it’s the man’s mentality that pushed him into that zone, or do you think it’s the woman’s mentality that pushes him into that zone? [LEXIE] It can be both. Maybe it’s partly not setting the expectations. [RON] Okay, I’m going to hug you today, but this does not mean you’re getting anything out of this. You’re just getting a squeezle. [LEXIE] Well, talking about when do you know that you’re going to move to the next level? What are some cues or being able to freely say if they’re giving some cues, if they’re moving to the next level, having the freedom to say I really just want to be affectionate or maybe even move into the next type of intimacy, which would be more sensual touch and still not have the goal of we’re going to have intercourse. [RON] I just like the word sensual. You get that in, you’re very white. That’ll work every time. [LEXIE] So let’s define sensual touch. So sensual touch is going to be a deeper level of intimacy than just affectionate. This is what I don’t necessarily want my teenagers to do. I don’t want cuddling under the blanket while watching a movie. [RON] That’s not cuddling. They’re doing other stuff. [LEXIE] But in our definition, a sensual touch. We’re talking about cuddling, maybe giving a massage. This cuddling or sensual touch can be with clothes on or without clothes on in our definition whereas affectionate is pretty much going to be, you still have your clothes on. [RON] Okay, I can see that. Been there, done that. [LEXIE] The massage, it could be like a foot massage or a shoulder massage. [RON] And that doesn’t necessarily leave to sex. That could just be you leading to hand cramps [LEXIE] The massage [RON] Because the man’s doing all the work on that back, all the work, 10, 15 minutes’ worth of work, and then he gets that two second reciprocation massage. [LEXIE] Yes, yes. And again, it can be a step in the process that leads to intercourse, but again, not every intimate interaction with your partner has to end there, that there is benefit in having these different types of touch just because it helps you to feel more connected. [RON] Go ahead. I’m curious on the third one now [LEXIE] Well, see the third one again, can be with clothes on, close off. I mean, it can be very broad. We’re calling this playful touch. Playful touch is just when you’re having fun. This can be done when you’re taking a shower together or you’re dancing, and — [RON] But we’re naked at this point. We’re naked. [LEXIE] No, not necessarily. It can be all of the options, fully clothed, partially cloth, or naked, because you know, in the shower. [RON] That’s where I was going. It’s like, that’s messy. [LEXIE] But dancing doesn’t have to be naked [RON] Dirty dancing, I get that. [LEXIE] And it doesn’t even have to be dirty. It could just be playful. I say it’s broad because it also can include games, that if somebody wanted like strip poker or you know? [RON] Now I got a curious question, is this one of those things that women are talking about that they don’t seem like dear enough from men, that they’re missing these first three elements, in the, I don’t even know what to call it in the physical touch realm and the men, they feel like men want to run right down to sections four and five, which we haven’t talked about yet, but I heard one, two, and three. So I’m wondering if that’s — [LEXIE] This could be foreplay, I think that’s the word you’re looking for. [RON] Yes, that’s the word I’m looking for, foreplay. I don’t know that word very much. Oh, that didn’t sound right. That’s just wrong. [LEXIE] These can be a part of foreplay and it doesn’t mean that, oh, let me do step 1, 2, 3, and then at the end of this particular session, then we’re going to have sex. It can lead to that. It’s also important to know that you can be affectionate three days in a row and no sex and then on day four, hey … [RON] I need to give him a warning for the guys, do, do, do, do, do. Doing the first three steps will not guarantee sex. [LEXIE] Exactly. [RON] There’s your message. [LEXIE] But it could certainly lead there. [RON] Absolutely. It’s definitely laying down the foundation. [LEXIE] Yes, exactly. Exactly. All right, so far we have talked about affectionate, sensual, playful and that there is a wide range and locations that these things can happen. [RON] Like where they can happen, or on the body where they can happen or both? [LEXIE] Both. So the fourth type of touch is what we’re calling erotic touch. [RON] Ooh, I want to get my porn music out. Like I had any porn music or something like walk or walk a walk or walk. I don’t know what porn music sounds like. I’m sorry, I don’t listen to, I don’t watch porn. [LEXIE] I feel like I’ve said right a lot today. Anyway, erotic touch is like the next deeper level from essential and playful in that this can lead to orgasm, but it does not have to include intercourse. This could be, I think we tend to talk about it lending a hand. [RON] Oh, that’s the way I word it to couples lending a hand. [LEXIE] Yes, whether that is with a vibrator or helping your partner. [RON] It’s whatever, mouth, hand, something, toes, whatever. Get your goat. [LEXIE] Yes. [RON] Not the goat though. Do not bring in a goat. [LEXIE] This is the part where there needs to be more communication between partners and what you’re comfortable with and what you’re not comfortable with. Sometimes partners are more willing to do about it, but they’re not comfortable in initiating it and so working on having these important conversations about what you want or what your fantasy is. [RON] I think this is one of those conversations that couples just leave out. It’s a very important conversation. They don’t talk about it during the dating stage, the engagement stage or the marriage stage. They just overlook it and then they wonder why they don’t have fulfilled sex lives or they feel like their partner is over demanding. It’s because these conversations actually don’t happen. It just what you expect. [LEXIE] Or belief systems about what it means if you want this type of intimacy. Sometimes we have people maybe who come from very strict religious backgrounds that don’t feel comfortable talking about sex because for a lot of years the message is sex is bad and then suddenly, you’re married and okay, sex isn’t bad anymore and making that transition right can be very difficult, to shape, change your whole mindset. I find that when you engage in more playful touch, that that can help you to move into being more comfortable talking about things, helps you to be more comfortable with your body, because things that fire together wire together in our brains. So if you’re talking about sex and you’re having fun, you can wire those connections in your brain to help do away with some of the sexist, bad automatic cognitions that may pop up. So being more playful can help you, when talking about being more erotic in your touch, it also can help you to feel more comfortable with erotic touch. Again, we still haven’t made it to intercourse yet. So it can be that orgasm happens and there’s no intercourse and that is like the goal of the whole touch that you have just experienced. [RON] Okay. [LEXIE] Then that leads us to the last type of touch. That would be intercourse. [RON] On the intercourse side, what I would tell the guys in a heartbeat is working on a 3:1 ratio, Dude, you work on a 3:1 ratio within your marriage, you’re making sure, guys out there are going, I don’t understand what a 3:1 ratio means. My home homer head is just not contemplating that. I get it. Okay, homer, listen, this is what it works down to. Make sure your wife climaxes three times. You get your one, she gets her three. Nobody will ever stray. I mean, your marriage will be sound as a pound. [LEXIE] Well, I don’t know that we could say no one will ever stray because there are lots of reasons that people stray. However, I think that being able to talk about it and not be selfish, those are some important ingredients in having a healthy sex life for sure. [RON] I agree. It’s definitely a conversation to be had. One of those things I would look at is this is a happy formula moment. I would look at if you don’t understand the happy formula that’s in a previous episode, you can go into our archives and find the happy formula. But it is setting the expectations, having understanding of what it is you want, how you want it, how often you want it, where all those little details, and have conversations. [LEXIE] So much of what we do when we are working with couples comes down to just helping people to talk about things. If you don’t talk about things, one, you may be making assumptions, two, you can’t make things better unless you’re talking about it. Defining expectations, defining what these different types of touch mean to you and what you really want, all of that is really important. [RON] If you notice you have sexual hang-ups, something that doesn’t rhyme, you listen to these five little physical touch styles and you’re like, I don’t like any of those, those are all gross, that’s all nasty, okay, in the psychological field, there are pros that specialize just with sex stuff. We would have to recommend go talk to someone. If there’s a problem, go talk to someone, go find a pro. You can find it in a book sometimes, but sometimes you just need to find someone you can sit down face to face and start working some of these questions out. [LEXIE] I’d like to say that it may not really be that it’s a problem, it’s just an issue. So often it is something that is easily worked out. If you don’t address it, then it doesn’t get better. [RON] Okay. This was a great talk. [LEXIE] It’s always a great talk with you, babe. [RON] We’ll see you all later. [LEXIE] Thank you for listening. Time is our most valuable resource and we appreciate that you shared your time listening to us. If you enjoyed our show, please rate us or give us a review. You can share this episode with someone that you think may benefit. You can find more from us at marriedentrepreneurspodcast.com. [RON] This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or any other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.