[LEXIE LEE] The Married Entrepreneurs Podcast is part of the Practice of the Practice network, a network of podcasts seeking to help you market and grow your business and yourself. To hear other podcasts like Bomb Mom and Grow A Group Practice, go to www.practiceofthepractice.com/network. [RON LEE] Welcome to the Married Entrepreneurs Podcast. This is Ron Lee. [LEXIE] And I am Lexie Lee. [RON] We are professional counselors and serial entrepreneurs who are married [LEXIE] To each other. [RON] Thank you for joining us as we explore the business of life and the life of business. Life coaches, coaches, business coaches, we don’t need no stinking coaches. We’re not spending the money on stuff like that. That’s ridiculous. That cost a small fortune. We’re not doing it [LEXIE] That sounds very familiar. I think I’ve had that conversation before. [RON] I think I’ve said it before, I mean probably with those loud tones and everything, I mean — [LEXIE] I know you’ve said it before. That’s what we’re going to talk about today folks, is we’re going to talk about life coaches. I think really where we should start is what’s the difference between a life coach and a counselor because we are licensed counselors ourself. [RON] When I think about it, when I think about the difference between life coaches and counselors, I think training, I think the amount of training that goes into what you know, life coaches can be good, but I don’t think they get the training that counselors get because they’re not really going to the university sometimes to get that in depth. But I think that there’s one major thing in my mind right there is the amount of training. [LEXIE] Well, and I think it depends on what you want the life coach for as far as the training. Because if you’re wanting more of an executive coach, because we’re saying life coach, maybe if you want more of an executive coach who is helping you with business goals, the training that they have in business is probably going to be way more than what a counselor has. [RON] True. So the different kinds of coaches as in mental health life and then business coach, which is a business coach. [LEXIE] Yes. [RON] But you’re going to be looking for people with MBAs, success stories, things like that, that’s what you’re going to be using to say, hey, these guys know what they’re talking about as far as looking at a business coach. You’re not going to just want to hire some dude who goes, “I’m a business coach, cut me a shingle.” [LEXIE] So someone who is trained as a mental health professional may not necessarily be the best fit. I mean, they could be depending on their experience, but in general, not the best fit if you’re looking for a business coach. If you’re looking more for help around general life or relationship or parenting, then yes, life coach versus counselor. Then I think that there’s not clear definition in what the difference is. [RON] Well, clear it up baby. [LEXIE] Well, I think it’s so much an opinion. I think one, it’s part of the issue that counseling boards are struggling with, where’s that line between, you’ve crossed and you’re doing counseling versus you’re doing coaching. But that’s a whole different … [RON] That’s a whole different episode. [LEXIE] Yes. But for our talk today, I think that in general a counselor can be a life coach, but a life coach cannot be a counselor. The biggest difference would be in learning how to cope. Life coaches are better equipped at helping you to say, okay, this is how I get where I want to go. A counselor is better at helping you to learn to cope with the circumstances that you found yourself in the past or your current circumstances and how do you cope with that? [RON] When you say that, it reminds me of what a business coach would do too. Business coaches are going to look at your goal. Where do you want to be? Where are you trying to head, kind of like a life coach would do but they’re looking at your business, your bottom lines, things like that, where you have your life coaches looking at where do you want your life to be? In other words, do you want to be in a bigger house marriage, do you want marriage, what schooling do you want? So it’s help making those line of life decisions and not necessarily business decisions, even though business incisions can be life decisions and there’s a crossover right there. [LEXIE] Well, and I think a big difference also is that a counselor has the ability to be able to file an insurance whereas coach doesn’t because a counselor is looking at something that is in, within a medical model, not all counselors, but in general within a medical model that there is some diagnosis, anxiety, bipolar [RON] Adjustment disorder. [LEXIE] A wide scheme of things and they have the ability to file on insurance. However, a coach is not because again, it’s not a medical model and it’s about how to take you from where you are to where you want to go. Again, the counselor is helping you to learn to cope. So a counselor can be a coach but a coach cannot be a counselor [RON] Correct, because boards and stuff and, yes [LEXIE] Well, and that’s the other thing that I think is the struggle around coaching versus counseling is if you are a licensed counselor, you have a licensing board that is making sure that you are following rules and that is protecting the consumer or the client. Sometimes people think the board is protecting the counselor and that’s not it [RON] That goes to tell me is not the truth. [LEXIE] They’re there to protect the consumer [RON] Yes, the consumer. [LEXIE] So there’s not really a licensing board that is monitoring coaches to protect the consumer for a coach. That makes it even more difficult to figure out what’s the best coach that I need, what’s going to be a good fit? [RON] Right, because like I said, they don’t have the restrictions that we do. So it’s a cowboy country out there for life coaches. Man, they just like they can last so and do whatever they want to, put their brand however they want to, talk however they want to, advertise however they want to. We do not have those, we don’t have all those options. [LEXIE] Yes. We, again have that board that’s saying, if you want a license, you will follow these ethical guidelines. [RON] So how do I figure out which one I want, Lex? [LEXIE] Well, I think it is partly in where do you want to get one? The first distinction is are you needing to learn to cope, are you needing to learn how to get where you want to go? So coping for sure you need counseling. If it is not that you need to cope, but that you want to achieve things, then that is more coaching. [RON] Okay, so let’s say I want to coach. So what do I look for in a good coach? [LEXIE] We talked about how maybe there needs to be some tiering system and that you don’t go with the most expensive coach out there in the beginning. How much coaching have you achieved in the past versus if you have had lots of coaching, then you could go up in prices in the coach that you pick because you want somebody who can take you to the level that you want to reach. So maybe there’s like this certain level of coaching that you need if you’re just trying to get to six figures and then there’s another level of coaching that you need if you’re trying to get to half a million or you want to get to seven figures. Those are going to be different coaches who can get you there because one, they should have gotten there themselves. If they’re not there, how can they tell you how to get there? [RON] Right. When you think about that, you don’t really want to hire a guy who hasn’t done it. You don’t want to hire a guy who actually makes less money than you. So if you’re at the half million dollar marker, okay, what’s just a pretty good marker, man? I mean, that’s a substantial marker in life. You’re at the half million dollar marker. If you want to get to the million dollar marker, you’re going to be looking for a guy who’s going to charge you what you would think would be the proper amount of money, which may seem expensive to anyone else who’s at that hundred thousand dollars tier in trying to get to the $200,000 tier. Those costs are going to be dramatically different. [LEXIE] Yes, and that’s chucking on the executive or the business coach. When you think about relationship coaching, again, what is their training? I don’t necessarily want parenting coaches from someone who hasn’t lived life as a parent. Not to say that you have to experience everything to know what it’s like. But I thought I knew things about raising kids until I actually had kids. There’s head knowledge and then there is woo. I have been sitting there on the couch three o’clock in the morning crying because this is so hard in dealing with this baby and I didn’t know that I was going to have that moment until I had that moment. [RON] Are those fun things that pop up or at 12 or 13 when puberty hits and you’re like, “Where did my baby go? Bring it back. I got an argumentative thing in my house.” [LEXIE] There’s a meme going around right now that is so true, the what to expect when you’re expecting book that you get when you’re pregnant. There should be one, what to expect 17 years later because that is very different and you don’t necessarily see it coming until, you know [RON] You don’t, you wake up and it sneaks up on you and smack you in the back of the head and then they start arguing with you and you’re just like, what happened? [LEXIE] Well, and thinking about relationship coaching and marriage counseling, I used to think that I wouldn’t want a marriage counselor who has been divorced because I mean — [RON] You doesn’t have to do it [LEXIE] They can’t walk their talk. But on the other hand, there is some value in being able to reflect back and say, oh, okay, these are the mistakes that I see that I made. So if they have been divorced and then they are like, okay, this is where I went wrong and now I can make it better in the next relationship, that’s one plus. The second plus is that, oh my brain just like stopped for a second. [RON] We’ll wait, do [LEXIE] The second thing is that it takes two people. So I don’t want to judge somebody that they’ve had a divorce if — [RON] So, maybe they didn’t cause the divorce. Maybe they’re not the one that stepped out. Maybe they’re not the one that filed, maybe they’re not the one that did, so what I heard you say was one divorce could be okay from a life coach or someone or like a marriage or a relationship coach. One divorce, you’re going to be like, okay, well what about if you see, if you’re talking to the guy who said like two or three or the female, two or three divorces in, is that when you’re like, but they’ve had a lot of relationships [LEXIE] But they may have something wrong with their picker. [RON] You got a bad picker. So you really want to look at some of the background stuff when you look for a coach. Really got to dig into their own stuff. If they’re not being a little vulnerable, if they’re not being a little bit willing to throw their stuff out there and say who they are and what they’re doing and what their past is, that may be a flag. [LEXIE] Well, and that’s something that you can do more with coaching that you can’t do with counseling. Counselors, the ethics, you only reveal so much about yourself and with coaches you can be a little more open, just as a side note. So something else to think about when you’re trying to decide what coach or who might be a good fit is what mode or medium they use to deliver the coaching. Is it in-person or like via Zoom or Skype or is it simply on the phone? What are your needs there? There are pros and cons with both of those. Some are pros and cons for the coach and some are pros and cons for the person being coached. [RON] We do Zoom meetings on a regular basis with couples and it’s sometimes, you lose something through Zoom. [LEXIE] Yes, and you lose even more if it is just on the phone and you can’t read body language because at least with Zoom you can see body language. [RON] Well, facial expressions, because, you can’t see the body shift all the way. You see a little shoulder action but it is difficult. It makes it harder. So we would say meet in person at least once or twice maybe. [LEXIE] I would personally want some combination of, because that’s what’s going to work for me. Here is a pro that people don’t think about with being on the phone is it is much easier to give hard feedback if you don’t see their face. Years ago I was a phone banker. I worked for a major bank [RON] I don’t go there. I mean, I’m going way back. [LEXIE] I would do customer service over the phone and people would be so rude, so much more rude on the phone than they would be face-to-face because they didn’t have to see my face. So if you need some hard feedback from your coach, it may be easier for them to give that to you if it’s just in a phone call versus if you’re in-person. It just feels uncomfortable sometimes to really hold somebody’s feet to the fire. So thinking about that, when you’re looking for a coach, what’s the best medium and what do you need from them? [RON] How much money should I spend? Well, what, I mean I know the numbers are all over the place but should I have a cap or should I just, is there any idea of whether like what normal is? [LEXIE] Well, and I think there’s another piece of that, too, in that how long is the coaching session and how frequently are you meeting? So research actually shows that shorter, more frequent coaching works better and I would say the same happens in counseling. We all are part of this counseling hour, but sometimes you can get a whole lot done in 30 minutes. [RON] 30 minutes is actually not a bad session. [LEXIE] Yes. So if you did 32nd, excuse me, not 30 seconds, but 30 minutes two times a month, it’s going to be way more effective than one 60 minute, one time a month. That’s going to factor into the cost. I would say that again, it depends on how experienced the coach is. $150 an hour. [RON] To $250, and then of course if you’re looking for an executive, you’re going to go a whole lot higher than that. [LEXIE] Yes, yes. So thinking in terms of how long you want your sessions to be, research shows shorter and more frequent is better. Then another question is like, how many sessions are you’re looking at because sometimes coaches offer packages [RON] Ooh, that’s a really nice package. [LEXIE] Whatever. In general, 12 to 15 sessions can be a good amount of time to work with someone and really see some progress. It really depends on what your goal is, what you’re working on. [RON] That’s one of the first things, the first two or three sessions you should be doing is kneeling down the goal [LEXIE] First session. [RON] I think first session. First session, nail down the goals, understand where you’re trying to get to understand key markers that you’re looking for. Understand that it’s not going to happen overnight. You’re going to put some effort into this. Coaches are not there to do the work for you. They’re there to help you understand and lay out the roadmap for you. [LEXIE] When they lay out the roadmap, they’re not necessarily giving you a to-do list. I mean, maybe sometimes in the beginning, but it’s really more about having a conversation about where you want to go. The last thing that I really wanted to say on this topic was that you want to think about in terms of do you want an individual coach or do you want to coach who can do more of a team approach? Because since we’re in business together, we need someone who can work with both of our personalities and not all coaches do that. Well, they may be good with one person in front of them. We need someone who is good with two different people in the room. [RON] Because you got to get them to agree. I mean, if you’re working with a husband, a wife team, then you really are needing someone who can understand the dynamics of both of that and operate within it, understand that you may have push from one person but not the other. [LEXIE] Or if you may need two individual coaches, one for each of you. It’s not necessarily a business coach, but it’s more life coaching, my specific issues, and then my partner has their own coach and their specific issues. So all of those are things to take into mind when you’re thinking about how do I select a coach. Now do we recommend coaching? Absolutely. [RON] Absolutely. [LEXIE] A hundred percent. We were resistant in the beginning and then from experience the things that we have accomplished since having coaches, it’s just been a night and day difference in some areas. [RON] So I want to throw one more thing out there. Understand that an LPC in one state may have to register himself as a life coach if he’s dealing with someone in a different state simply because of the way — [LEXIE] Well, I’m going to [RON] You’re going to correct me on that one? Polish it. [LEXIE] Well yes, because they’re not offering counseling. If you’re offering counseling, you can only do that if you have permission from the licensing board to do that in that state and licenses do not always go across lines. Coaching, however, you do not have to have a license. So are they helping you to cope? Then you need to have somebody who’s licensed in your state if they’re helping you to [RON] Grow [LEXIE] Right, to grow and that is a coaching relationship. It doesn’t have to have a license that crosses state lines. So if you would like to have more from us on how to navigate this business and pleasure relationship that you have being married to an entrepreneur, check out our free course. You can find it at marriedentrepreneurspodcast.com. Again, it is free. When you sign up, you also are not only getting our 12-week course, but you will get additional tips and information directly into your email box from us [RON] As well as future episodes of the Married Counselor podcast. As soon as you sign up for that’s going to be a drip. It’s going to fall into your stuff. Hey guys, y’all have a great day out there. Go out, swirl it, kill it, make it yours. [LEXIE] Thank you for listening. Time is our most valuable resource and we appreciate that you shared your time listening to us. If you enjoyed our show, please rate us or give us a review. You can share this episode with someone that you think may benefit. You can find more from us at marriedentrepreneurspodcast.com. [RON] This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or any other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.